Clown Fish Breeding

[thecoralreef]

I thought I would share my newly found excitement with everybody. I have always been facinated by marine fish and breeding them. I have had many freshwater aquariums before and was breeding fancy guppies for the longest time. I switched over to saltwater aquarium keeping and have never looked back.

Now that I am in the hobby full blast, and my wife would disagree and say head over heels, I am trying my hand at breeding marine fish. I have done lots of general reading in regards to breeding marine animals and came to the conclusion that it would be easiest to start with the clown fish.

I have a display tank which is a 135 gallon tank. There is about 130 Lbs. of live rock, Red Sea Desjardin Sailfin Tang, Red Sea Purple Tang, Yellow Tang, Green Mandarin Goby, Maroon Clown, Ocellaris Clown, various soft lps and sps corals, and lots of blue hermits and astrea snails. When I first thought about breeding clown fish I went out and bought 2 Maroon clowns, not knowing that they were almost the hardest to breed of the clowns, and put them in my display tank. After about 2 months of bickering and arguing and fighting I had to take one of the maroons out before they killed each other. The one maroon clown was getting really beat up, bruised and all the fins were torn and tethered. That's how I ended up with only one marron and one ocellaris clown in the display.

Since this I designed and built a stand where I could have 2 - 20 gallon tanks and a sump all stacked onto of each other to save space. My thoughts on this system were to have a mated pair of clowns in one tank, and have a coral propogation tank in the other and have them both plumbed together to the sump underneath. I now have in the top aquarium a pair of Ocellaris clowns, and in the other aquarium I have a pair of pink skunk clowns. I say they are paired only because they are not fighting and they get along so well. I am still waiting for the day that I can say that they are a mated pair because neither pair has decided to lay eggs as of yet.

The story doesn't end hear though, it actually gets very interesting. In my display tank as you might recall I now have an Ocellaris clown fish and a Maroon clown fish. The Ocellaris is about 3 - 3.5 inches and the Maroon is about 1.5 inches long. The 2 of them always got along once I took out the second maroon clown and have never had a problem since. It was always fun watching these 2 fish in the display tank as they would swim by eachother, share the same anemone, and even cought them sleeping in the same anemone at night. I thought this weird but never gave it anymore thought. A couple months ago I noticed they were having some minor spats. Nipping a bit, the Ocellaris badgering the maroon to move, and the maroon in turn placing his body parallel to the Ocellaris and what looked to be quivering with fear. I quickly picked up my books and began to read why they were all of a sudden not geting along thinking I was going to have remove one. They weren't fighting like the maroons were so this was a bit of an inclination that something else was happening. After reading in books about the quivering and badgering I quickly came to the conclusion that they were looking for a place to lay eggs. I had to read this several times as this was a maroon clown and an ocellaris clown that were supposedly mating up. I talked to a few people, sent a few messages, checked a few forums and was assured that this would not happen between these 2 fishes. Placing the thought of them breeding in my tank was placed in the back of my mind, not very far away.

Placing my attention on the other 2 pairs of clowns I was trying to get to breed I was reading up on ways to stimulate clowns into breeding. I tried changing there light period from 12 hours to 14 hours, feeding live food and fresh food.

About a month ago when getting ready to go out of town for the weekend we were oogling the tank. After watching the hovering around a specific spot beside there anemone I noticed there was a patch of yellow on the rock. My clowns had layed eggs. Now your probably wondering which clowns layed the eggs. To my surprise it was the clowns in the display tank. The ocellaris clown and the maroon clown. I immediatly reached in and turned the rock so we could see the eggs better and take some pictures. I returned the rock back to the original postion that it was in. I don't have to tell the people who have breed clowns before that I shouldn't have done this. Let me tell you that the male clown (maroon) has got one heck of a bit. He did not like me in his space and liked it even less when I decided to move his eggs. The other thing was I may have been premature aboutgetting in there space and moving the eggs around. At this point the abandoned the eggs and they died. The eggs were all gone by the time I got back from my weekend away. No need to worry as these 2 clowns have layed eggs again about a week later. I still was not ready to rear clowns as I didn't have any green water or rotifers ready to feed them.

Once I realized that they were laying eggs I started my research on breeding clowns a little more in depth. A big help has been a book called Clownfishes - by Joyce D. Wilkerson. It's a couple year old but the information is worth it's weight in gold. I asked lots of questions in regards to my 2 clowns and again was assured that they may pair up and might even lay eggs but the eggs would probably never hatch. Well I thought this may be true as the first clutch of eggs never matured and died within 3 days. Once the second clutch of eggs came I never went near the clowns when entering the tank. I didn't want to give the clowns any reason to think I was there to bother them or give them any reason to abandon the eggs again.

The second clutch of eggs were going well in my opinion. I was excited to see the eggs there still at day 3. At day 5 I knew that the eggs were indeed fertilized as I could see little eggs and tiny bodies forming in the egg sac. What excitement this was. At day 8 the eggs got a silver sheen to the tips of the eggs and I knew that they would either hatch that night or the next. The lights went out on time and i went to bed. The next morning when I woke up I went down stairs to the tank to see what had happened. The eggs hatched. There were no eggs left in the spot that they had been. I now knew I had to get ready so as to be able to raise these little creatures.

The next clutch of eggs came only 5 days later from the time the prior clutch hatched into the tank. I will be taking pictures and keeping a log and documenting this process I take for future refernce and for you to follow my progress if you desire. I will try to take pictures of the eggs from day 1 right through to the juvenile period. I thought I would do this so I can get input from those who have done this and maybe to inspire those who may be thinking of doing the same. I am hoping that hings will transpire well over the next month but if not it can be chalked up for a learning experience. I will try to update this thread on a daily basis so you can check back as often as you want to add your comment, suggestions or questions.

The first picture I will add is of the 3 clutch of eggs from this pair. The first clutch they layed the eggs on an adjascent rock. The second clutch they layed on the glass of the aquarium directly behind there anemone. This third clutch they layed almost in the same spot as the second clutch. I placed a clay tile in the aquarium after the second clutch hatched into the tank but it may have been too late for them to decide to move there hatching place. I am hoping they will adapt to the tile for the next clutch of eggs as this would be easier to move into a rearing tank than having to scoop or siphon the newly hatched larvae out of the display tank.

Sorry for the long post but I am excited about this and thought I would share this experience for those who wish to follow.

I now have my greenwater culture and rotifers growing. I was not ready for the first 2 clutch's of eggs but will be ready for the new clutch, hopefully.

[thecoralreef]

First day of eggs. The eggs are about 1 hour old.
Date of egg laying : October 5th, 2004

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0702-med.jpg

Sorry about the picture but I don't have the best camera in the world.

[FishyinKY]

Mike, that is amazing and wonderful and please keep us up to date on what's going on. How they grow, progress and/or hatch!

[J_T]

When I get home, I will add the pictures of the first clutch of eggs for you Mike.

Are you going to build a shelf for making the green water?

[Mary]

I wish you the best of luck with caring for the eggs! It would be great to read and see up-dates and how things go each step of the way, so we can learn from this as well. I really hope this turns out a success for you! :)

[J_T]

Done right, we might have another article in the making. If only we somewhere to put them......

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome, Mike! I'm very excited for you! I, too, have been wanting to try raising clownfish (and even dottybacks) for quite some time now. I've just been leary of the extra time and attention required to pull it off. Maybe since the winter months are coming and I'll be indoors more, I may try it out.

[Wildcatt88]

This will be cool to watch Mike. Make us proud!

[thecoralreef]

Working on it people, I just took some pictures of day 2 of the eggs. They don't look much different but I will post a good picture anyway.

[thecoralreef]

Here is a picture of day 2 of the eggs. The eggs are only about 25 hours at this point. Sorry again for the picture as my camera sucks.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0712-med.jpg

[Shark Bait]

This will be very interesting with 2 different types of clowns as the parents hopefully we can get to see the result of what they look like.
Congrats. :clap: :woo:

[wrightme43]

Thats pretty cool man. Congrats on being a expecting clownfish Daddy. Good thing you dont live with Archie Bunker.

[thecoralreef]

Here is the eggs on day 3. I took the pics last night but never got around to posting them here. So this is a picture of dad tending to the eggs. He's at the eggs fanning them every 2 minutes at least. Mom comes around once in a while to help but she really doesn't do much other than keep him close to the eggs. If he wanders to far she's over pushing him back towards the eggs.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0716-med.jpg

[thecoralreef]

You can see that the eggs have gotten a little darker since the day before. I wish I had a better camera to take close ups. In a couple days you can see little eyes and pink bodies in the egg sacs. Then on the day they are going to hatch the eggs get a silvery tip to them, that's how you know they will hatch. Keep checking back as I will keep posting updates.

[Wildcatt88]

Keep us updated. Very cool man!

[Sea of Sorrow]

VERY cool!!!! Awesome documentation, Mike!

[J_T]

do you have the green water ready, or are you going to let the fry fend for themselves?

I am suprised that none of the other fish have tried to eat the eggs.

[thecoralreef]

None of the other fish can even get close to the anemone and mum's out there showing her teeth. She doesn't bite yet but she gets out in front of there face and fans out all her fins as if to say "go ahead, make my day", and then they leave and she goes back to the anemone. Green water is well underway and growing. I will post a picture later of my set up of green water and rotifers. I have a 10gallon tank with rotifers in it. I started out with about 1 liter of rotifers and I keep adding green water when needed and have about 4 gallons of rotifers now. I'll get some pics later and post them in here as well for everyone to critique.

[FishyinKY]

Mike are you going to try to leave them in the main tank or find a way to move them to another tank? I could always get them to the hatching point and even got them growing but the fish always managed to eat them when they started manuevering.
Mac

[Jimbo]

ok, mike, here's what we did at my school when we bred clowns (ocellaris, maroons, cinamons, and tomatos). when they started to hatch we siphoned them out into ten gallon tanks, putting about 5 gal of breeding tank water into the ten gallon, and a very slow stream of air from an airstone so as not to injure them.
we fed rotifers for the first week or so, introducing enriched artemia at about day 5. we added about 2 liters a day of new water until the tanks were full. also, the tanks where we put greenwater into the larval tanks seemed to grow and mature faster. artemia was constantly available to them and they got daily water changes of about 2-3 liters. after about a week they metamorphose and then we introduced sponge filters, and eventually started weaning them onto very small commercial food.
after they metamorphose you're pretty much in the clear and they're really not that difficult. hope this helps.

I can't wait to see what those little half-breeds look like!!

[Sea of Sorrow]

Mike, is this the book you've been getting your info from (the one you were reading on the way to MACNA): Clownfishes (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890087041/qid=1097255193/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8005100-2770232?v=glance&s=books)

[inwall75]

This is awesome Mike!!!

I'm sure your book has better info but thought I would give you this link anyway.

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=13423&cid=3799&search=

[thecoralreef]

Yup, that's the book. I am planning on taking the larvae out of the main tank after they hatch. The larvae will hatch about 1/2 hour to an hour after the tank lights go out. This is when the fun begins. You have to turn off all powerheads and pumps and everything in the tank so to have calm water. Larvae will instinctly migrate to the top of the water column to feed on phytoplankton which is at the surface in wild. Once they hatch and you ave all your lights and powerheads off, you need a flas light and a soup ladle or spup bowl of some kind, preferably white in color. Submerse the ladle or bowlsideways in the water surface half way in the water and shine the flash light in it. The larvae will be attracted to the light, swim into the bowl or ladle and then you can easily scoop and transfer to a larval rearing tank. I have several 5.5 gallon tanks for rearing larvae. Ocellaris clowns lay small clutches of eggs compared to most other clown fishes, and my mom clown is the ocellaris which is why I'm guessing I have small clutches so far. Normally from what I've read, maroons will lay upto 10 times the amount of eggs as ocellaris. I am planning on running the 5.5 gallon until they are a week into metamorphysis and then transfer them to a growout tank which I have yet to design. I'm thinking of a larger tank sectioned off as to hold several clutches and still keep them separate. I realize this will create alot of bacteria and such, but I am planning on a good filtration system as well to compensate for this. At the moment I have Guillard's F/2 formula to fertilize my greenwater, my greenwater to feed my rotifers, and rotifers to feed my larvae. I have on order some brine shrimp eggs to feed the larvae once they are big enough to eat them and selcon to enrich the brine if needed. I also have a rotifer screen to screen rotifers out of the water as not to contaminate the larvae tank. Rotifer water will have nitrates and amonia's that would be devestating for larvae. I think I am ready for this but only time will tell. I think the first challenge will be getting the larvae out of the tank and into a rearing tank. Oh well, let the games begin!

[J_T]

Good luck. thanks for the constant up dates. I think that we are having as much fun with this as you are.

[Sea of Sorrow]

I agree, Jon! This is really exciting!! I'm definitely getting interested in trying out some fish breeding.
Again, awesome documentation, Mike!

[thecoralreef]

Here is a picture of the eggs on day 4. It's hard to see o this picture because of my camera, but the eggs have started to develop eyes near the ends of the sac. Hopefully I can get a better picture of the eggs showing the eyes and I'll post it later. If not maybe tomorrows eggs will show the eyes a little better.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0720-med.jpg

[thecoralreef]

As I said before, I would post a picture of my culture setup. In the picture you can see my greenwater setup with 2 liter pop bottles. I took a 2" x 6" x 3' board and drilled 1 1/4" holes along the board. This allowed me to fit the pop bottle upside down in the holes very tightly as not to tip over. I used 2 screws to attach the board down so the whole setup didn't fall over. I placed the bottle upside down so that none of the algae would settle in the dimples in the bottom of the bottle. I tried it this way first but there was too much area for the air hose to keep it all suspended. Putting the bottle upside down made the bottom of the bottom into a cone shape and keep all the algae suspended. I cut one small dimple off the bottom of each bottle big enough that I could fit a small funnel into to refill the jugs after using. I have a peice of hose with a peice of ridgid tube at the right length that I place the ridgid end into the greenwater I want to use, start a siphon, and it will empty the bottle to the proper level and then air breaks the siphon. I then add this to my rotifers once a day. The rotifers are in the tankon the right of the picture. This is a 10 gallon tank which has about 5 gallons of rotifers right now. The ten gallon tank sitting in front is an extra tank I had that I put a few pieces of rock in, a maroon clown, and a cleaner shrimp in because I had nowhere to put them for right now, I just sold the tank they were in. If you have any questions or suggestions please post.

Thanks Mike

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0730-med.jpg

[Mary]

Great looking set-up Mike! Very interesting that you are posting a daily up-date of the eggs and how things change each day. Looking forward to seeing what you share with us every day now and learning from it.

Thanks for sharing!

[Wildcatt88]

I think you're doing an awesome job Mike. I think we need to elect Mike as the new fish breeding chairman. That's a lot of work, and you've done it up right.

I am very impressed!

[FishyinKY]

Very Impressive indeed Mike. I'm really interested to see your guys hatch and all that goes there as well. BRAVO.

[Jimbo]

one other tip mike is to cover the outside of the larval tank with dark material so the fry cant see out of it. i've read/heard they can sometimes die of 'fright' (they get scared, swim a little really fast, then die). also if the bottom is dark its easier to see the crud on the bottom and siphon it out

[thecoralreef]

I'm camping this weekend guys, so I'm sorry I didn't get a picture last night of day 5. All the pictures so far have been taken in the evening, this picture is of day 6 in the morning. The next picture won't be until Monday night of day 7. I think the eggs may hatch on day 8 but we will see. I have black acrylic that I have cut to fit perfectly around the larvae tank for the first few days. As for the bottom of the tank, everything I've read so far suggest that I make the bottom of the tank white or almost white so to see any dead larvae and eggs sacs and fish crap. I'll have to check up on that more.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194100_0123-med.jpg

[J_T]

That is an awesome picture.

Did you ever have the feeling you are being watched?????

[thecoralreef]

Here is a picture of the eggs last night. I was camping on the weekend and it got late last night so i snapped a couple pics to post today. I will take some more pics this evening and post them as well. You can see in this picture that the eggs are starting to get a silver tip to them.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0746-med.jpg

[ReefinBob]

I look 2 or three times a day at the site just to see if there are any updates on this thread. I feel like an "uncle"!

[Wildcatt88]

LOL BOB!

The silver tips are pretty distinguishable, but I like the previous one, you can see their lil eyes so clearly.

I am excited for ya Mike.

Now just get some gold stripes and false percs breeding with their own kind, and I will take some off your hands! ;)

[thecoralreef]

I'm working on a pair of ocellaris and a pair of pink skunks and always have my eye open for a breeding pair of a different kind. This picture is of day 8 at around 7:30 pm. You can see in the picture more eggs have gotten silver tips, but in the tank most if not all have silver tips now. I will be watching tonight to see if they are going to hatch tonight and I will take them out, if not tonight it will be tomorrow night. I just wish I had a better camera to take some nice macro shots of the eggs.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0758-med.jpg

[Wildcatt88]

That's cool Mike. I would be looking for a few with a head start, that were silver yesterday.

And usually the first to hatch are the stronger ones, at least in the wild... Not sure when ya breed them though.

[J_T]

Looks like you will have a busy night tonight. Cannot wait for the pictures tomorrow.

[Wildcatt88]

BABIES? WE HAVE BABIES YET?

[thecoralreef]

YES, there here! Well a few of them anyways. I guess there was a few that got a little antcy and couldn't wait for the rest of them. I did check the tank last night and a few did hatch. I gathered about 20 fry from the broodstock tank and placed them in the larval tank. I haven't fed them yet this morning but thought I would let everyone know there is a few. Compared to what is going to hatch tonight this is just a drop in the bucket. I counted the eggs from a good pic I took and figure there is just over 500 eggs in this clutch. Blew me away because looking at it I only guessed there would have been 150 or so. Anyway, the eggs in the tank don't even look like there missing any brothers or sisters so tonight will be interesting. If I can get a picture of the fry I will post that picture today. I've got to uncover the babies and feed them.

[FishyinKY]

Congratulations Mike. You are doing so great at this!

[thecoralreef]

It's hard to get a good picture with these guys so small. I will kepp trying to get a better picture but this will do for now.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0765-med.jpg

[Mary]

Congrats on your new babies! Great job on posting the info and keeping us up-dated. Can't wait to see this thread everyday and see the changes. What are you starting out with feeding them?

[thecoralreef]

I screened out some rotifers from the rotifer tank and put them in the larval tank to a density of about 1 rotifer per body length of the larvae. I will basically be starting over tomorrow morning again once the rest of the larvae hatch. Let me tell you it wasn't very much fun last night, they don't really cooperate very much when trying to get them out. I'll post a picture later of the rest of the eggs when the lights come on.

[inwall75]

Mike,

I gotta tell ya....I love living vicariously through your posts on this process. Keep up the awesome job of documenting the procedure.

[thecoralreef]

This is a picture this morning after the lights just came on. Last night a few of the eggs hatched and I have about 20 fry in the larval tank as you can see above. As you can see in the picture below there is about 95% of the eggs still in the tank. I'm am assuming they will hatch tonight. You can see in the picture mom and dad don't leave the anemone or the eggs at all. They are both hard at work fanning the eggs to make sure they are oxygenated well and don't get any debris resting in them. I will update as things progress.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0770-med.jpg

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome Mike!! Outstanding work you're doing with this!

[JGB59]

this is awesome! I'm just coming in on the action and I cannot wait for todays update!

[Wildcatt88]

Too cool Mike! Can't wait to see these lil guys grow!

And gotta start getting ready for the next batch... ;)

Try to get some pictures of feeding the fry too, if you can. That would be very interesting.

[Naty]

Awesome Mike, keep 'em coming!

[thecoralreef]

All the eggs hatched last night in the display tank. As soon as the lights went out I turned off all pumps and powerheads and anything that would make any kind of current. I waited about 1/2 an hour and then started to collect the fry. What a pain in the arse, to put it mildly. I used a flash light and a soup bowl to collect the fry. I held the soup bowl on edge and submersed the bowl half way and directed the flash light into the bowl. All lights in the room were off at this point. I collected about 10 at a time in the bowl and placing them into the larval tank. I got about 150 fry out last night into the larval tank and I had enough, my arm were ready to fall off. I haven't checked the fry yet this morning but when I do I will take a picture and post a pic of the fry. I hope in the future that these clownfish make it a little easier for me and decide to lay there eggs on the tile I placed in the tank.

The clowns might have been disturbed but there anemone. On Monday the anemone all of a sudden decided to split in the tank. On Tuesday it decided to split again. I now have 3 anemones in the tank, 4 including the rose bulb anemone. If there is anyone from Canada that would like to buy an anemone, send a PM. It the anemone in the egg pictures.

[ReefinBob]

I can't wait to see the fry pics!

I love this thread!

[FishyinKY]

Fantastic Mike

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome news all the way around, Mike! Like Bob, I can't wait to see the pics of the fry!

[Wildcatt88]

WHERE ARE THE FRY?

I WANNA SEE EM!

[thecoralreef]

Well here you go! This is a picture of day 1 of the ocellaris/maroon clownfish hybrid. As of right now I have only one death of the fry. In this picture your looking at the bottom corner of the tank taken from over head on a bit of an angle. I liked this picture because you can actually see the rotifers in this pic. All the little specs floating in the water are the rotifers. I think when I was scooping out the fry I think I may have gotten some shrimp fry as well from my cleaner shrimp. I'll see if I can get a picture but they are even smaller than the clown fry. I have mysid shrimp gallore in the tank and these don't look anythin like them. I'll see what I can find on the net that resembles them and post it.

Also, I have had some e-mails regarding the fry asking questions and such. If you could please post any questions regarding the breeding in this thread I will answer them in here. This way others can see the question and answer as well.

Thanks Mike.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0786-med.jpg

[Wildcatt88]

Very cool Mike! Good job!

If you can get a 25% survival rate, that would be a good number of lil fishies...

[Mary]

:clap: Congrats on the babies and thanks for posting a pic of them. Does this make you a Gpa now? :)

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome, Mike!! Major congrats!!! Have you noticed any of them eating?

[thecoralreef]

Oh yes, they eat. Each fry will consume between 500 and 1000 rotifers each day until about day 6 when I will introduce baby brine shrimp. I've got to keep t rotifer density at about 15 per mililiter of larval tank water, that's alot of rotifers eh!

[Sea of Sorrow]

That IS a lot of rotifers, eh! :D :D

[J_T]

What is the day they morph?

I think it is great that you are constantly giving us updates.

[thecoralreef]

Metamophisis really is dictated by water temp. Assuming water temp stays constant at 80`F they will reach metamorphisis anywhere from 10 - 14 days. They should get some color pigmentation around the 5-6 day mark.

[Wildcatt88]

Too cool Mike! That is a TON of Rotifers!

[thecoralreef]

Through out the day yesterday there were a few losses of larvae. I'm not exactly what they died of but I did notice that a couple had some baby shrimp in there mouth. When I scooped out the fry I think there was a few baby cleaner shrimp in there. The shrimp would be too large for there throat but will still fit in there mouths and then they choke. Between yesterday and last night there was about 20 dead fry. All the rest are doing well and showing progress. I've noticed some swimming backwards to get rotifers which is good.

[Sea of Sorrow]

I'm sorry to hear that you lost some, but I suppose that that's pretty common to lose some in the process of raising them. It's good to hear that the rest of them are progressing very well! Can't wait to see more pics of them as they grow!

[na1paj]

hm, i never realized that maroons and ocellarius can breed! it would be exciting to see their babies, what color and how aggressive and stuff!
we've been breeding ocellarius and it's really fun!

[J_T]

Well, tell us more na1paj.... what is your setup, success rates, food that you feed. Pictures? do you have some, I like pictures....

[thecoralreef]

It's not a common occurance but it has happened. Here is a link to this kind of pair. This picture and link is for a brreding company that has a pair but this pair is opposite of mine. My pair is female ocellaris and male maroon, this company is female maroon and male ocellaris. Here is a link to there website and here is a pic from there cocoa clowns.
http://www.proaquatix.com/

http://www.proaquatix.com/images/fish/amphiprion_ocellaris_x_p_01.jpg

[na1paj]

we raised a couple of batches before we had to take apart the tank and move.
The parents are in a 65gal. setup is pretty general, fuge, skimmer and everything, hubby does most of that stuff. and we did all the clay pot thing, turning the lights off, hatching (all these are from reading forums)
Then feeding, hubby raises rotifers for seahorse babies, so i just stole some and feed few times a day. Then switch to baby brine, few different batches, different sizes to feed. oh and we also put selcon in the food.
The babies were in a 1 gal with just a bubbler and water changes everyday.
first batch was about 5 or so raised, 2nd batch we gave away about a jar full cuz we had to move.
pics are in my home comp, i'll post when i get home
truthfully, benggais are a whole lot easier to raise

[na1paj]

that is just friggin neat!
we have a ocel. pair and we lost our maroon pair, looking at buying one somewhere. someone locally is selling their breeding but it's a little too expensive.. $85 (with a gbt) *_*

[na1paj]

thecoralreef,
i just finish reading all the replies here. was wondering if you read about the clay pot deal. it's really easy, lot easier than scooping after lights out.
and clay pot costs like.. $1 at homedepot. just put it near the pair and they will lay eggs in there, and the night that they are to hatch, just take them out, put them in a tank, set bubbler (with a stone tip) from the bottom up (thru the hole in the clay pot) and they'll hatch. no loss at all
:D

[na1paj]

sorry.. them = the clay pot...

[thecoralreef]

Yes, I have clay pots in with the other clowns pairs that I have. I've also placed a 6" X 9" floor tile beside there sleeping anemone hoping they will migrate to the tile. If they don't take to the tile I will try a clay pot next go round.

[na1paj]

here's eggs in the clay pot

[na1paj]

here's baby clown

[na1paj]

bigger

[Wildcatt88]

Very cool na1paj! Thanks for sharing!

You wanna move those into the gallery? I think that would be cool. We need to start a new breeding section I do believe!

[thecoralreef]

A breeding section would be cool!

[thecoralreef]

Here is a picture of today's clown fry. You can't really see much difference yet with the camera have. I've oticed alot of the fry are manuvering backwards now, and also kinking there tails to shoot sideway's to grab rotifers. I had a few more losses today. I noticed a couple were from shrimp fry in the clowns mouth. It's easy to tell because the shrimp fry are about 3/5th the size of the clown fry and they are still stuck in the mouth of the clown fry. Total count for losses so far has been 29. I figure I got about 130 - 150 fry out when they hatchedwhich leaves me about 100 at least right now.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194000_0787-med.jpg

[J_T]

A breeding section would probably be a good idea. WC, what do you think?

[Haole]

I admire the determination and commitment to success that you possess with your breeding processes, Mike (thecoralreef).
I wish you great success in the future, but I can tell by all the research that you have already done, that it’s inevitable! Sounds like you’ve got a side business in the makings here!
I do have one question that I may have missed in your previous post’s.
How/with what, did you start your green water cultures?
Rob

[Jimbo]

also mike where did you get your start up rotifer culture from?

[Wildcatt88]

Yeah, thanks JT, I suggested the breeding section... LOL

Sounds like we need to do that. Everyone has been interested. Fraggin corals, now fraggin clowns.... Who woulda thunk it??? ;)

[Naty]

Moved this to the new forum.

[thecoralreef]

I started my greenwater culture from DT's Phytoplankton. You will need a fertilizer to help the greenwater or all you a doing is diluting the greenwater. The recommended fertilizer is a product called "Guillard F/2". You add this to your top-off water for your greenwater. I also used greenwater from a company called Reefcrew. This is also the company I got my rotifers from. They are in Canada but I belive they are shipping to the U.S. or will be soon. I only had one fry death overnight last night which is surprising, I left a basement window open a bit and the fry tank temperature went down to 72 from 80. NOT GOOD, I know. All is well though. I had one death today from a shrimp in the tank. I siphon all of them ut, so I though. Hopefully that was the last one and there won't be anymore death from shrimp fry. I've noticed 1 clown fry had a bit of color to it but it is so hard to get a picture of 1 fry when they are scooting all over the tank.
Mike

[Wildcatt88]

That's cool Mike. Keep us updated!

You know that the fertilizer is??? (Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, or something else entirely?)

[ReefinBob]

I was travelling all day and zoomed home to get my "fry progress report" - there was none :(

This is the best thread ever - I'm really interested in seeing what these little guys turn out looking like.

Thanks again, Mike, for keeping us all in the loop!

[Wildcatt88]

Someone yell at Mike and get us an update!!! LOL

[thecoralreef]

Sorry guys, been busy yesterday and today. I will get a picture right now of the babies in the tank. I should be able to get a side shot of them tonight as I am taking the cover off the tank. I have had black constrution paper around the larval tank since birth so they don't get stressed. Give me about 20 minutes and I will post a new picture.
Mike

[Wildcatt88]

FASTER FASTER!

[Mary]

Cat call for thecoralreef!!!!!!!!

[thecoralreef]

Ok, here is a picture of the fry as of about 15 minutes ago. Like I said my camera sucks so this is what I can do. If I can get a better picture I will post it, sorry. It's hard to count these little sickers as they move quick, but best guess there is about 80 - 100 in the tank. I've lost a total of about 45 as of right now total. Lost 2 yesterday, 2 overnight, and 1 today. I am starting a brine shrimp culture tonight which should be ready on Wednesday to start feeding the fry. They will like that. My best guess from my records, I am going to guess and say that I will have another clutch of eggs tomorrow afternoon from the pair of clowns in the main tank. They've layed there eggs the last 2 times on the Tuesday so if there clocks are working properly there should be eggs tomorrow again. I'll let everybody know tomorrow night if there are eggs or not. For now here is the picture, soory it's so crappie. I'll see if the neighbor will come over and take some pictures up close as he has an awsome camera for taking close-ups.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194fry_day_4-med.jpg

[thecoralreef]

Why is it not showing me the picture and just a link to the picture? I checked my options and it's turned on. Page 1 is the same way now as well. Is there something wrong on your end John or does everyone else see the picture.

[thecoralreef]

Hmmmmmm.........now it's working. Was it me or was something out of wack for a minute?

[Wildcatt88]

This form didn't have the IMG code turned on. Any time a new one is made it is turned off by default, for some weid reason, and until it does that we usually forget to manually turn it on.

When I saw it, I tried to fix your link, then realized the problem.

Anyway, you're hooked up now.

[thecoralreef]

Cool, thanks WC and keep up the good work with this board!

[Naty]

Oops, my bad Mike!

TY Wild. :)

[J_T]

So Mike, what are you going to do with the babies? That is one of the reasons that I never got into breeding yet. I have no where to unload that many babies.

[thecoralreef]

LFS said they would take some. I will only keep and raise what I can sell. I'm not going to raise 500 clowns when I can only sell 50, I'll keep 100 fry and hope to get 50. I'm not worried yet, I've talked to about a dozen store in about a 200 mile radius and they all said they would take some when they are ready.

[FishyinKY]

Your stock will be much healthier Mike so they will be getting a good thing.

[J_T]

Cool. Did you talk to any of the shops in my area?

[na1paj]

so far so good! good job thecoralreef!

[thecoralreef]

Yup, talked to a couple stores out your way.

[J_T]

Did you hear that Min, that means he will be coming to Toronto ;)

Let me know when you are in town, I will make sure the beer is cold.

[Shark Bait]

You going to sell any on here? Or just to LFS.

[Wildcatt88]

I am sure he'd send you some, but he is in Canada... Long way to Texas....

[Shark Bait]

Damn forgot about that. then have to deal with that import stuff. I'd still take some though if the shipping isn't that crazy.

[J_T]

It would have to go air. I would think that the airport would be the best way.

[Wildcatt88]

Airports are always cheapest... I say just drive them over and ship them from somewhere, like say, Michigan??? ;)

Plus, is there a new clutch of eggs??? And how are they today? WHERE ARE YOU MIKE?

[thecoralreef]

Here I are! Well, not sure about shipping cross border, can't see it being a problem. I'll ask a friend, she works for a brokerage company and see what is involved for fish only. No, there is no eggs that I can see anyway. The male doesn't come out at all, he's hiding in behind and underneath the anemone and I can't see back there. Maybe they layed eggs back in behind where I can't see but I don't think so. Well have to wait until tomorrow and see.

There was a couple losses over night with 2 more today. I am sure I will come out of this first batch with something, if only the experience and learning for the first clutch of eggs. Anyway, the fry don't look any different than yesterday and I can't seem to get a good picture so I'll wait till tomorrow to see if I can get a better picture.

[Wildcatt88]

Keep up the good fathering there Mike!

[thecoralreef]

Ok, I was fooling around trying to get a better picture and this is the best I've got so far. It's not the best but you can see the silver bellies on the fry and some are starting to get some darker color to them. I will be starting to feed the fry baby shrimp brine tomorrow so they should really grow after that good. any wya here's the pic, if I can get a better pic I'll post it as well.

Mike

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/500/1194Fry_day_6-med.jpg

[thecoralreef]

I should mention that the green you see in the picture is not in the larval tank. That is my greenwater culture behind the larval tank. It looks as though the tank is green, oops.

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome job, Mike!! Keep up the great work! :clap:

[Sea of Sorrow]

Originally posted by Wildcatt88
...I say just drive them over and ship them from somewhere, like say, Michigan??? ;)


YEAH! And while you're at it, drop some off with me! ;)

[inwall75]

This is TOO COOL!!! Thanks for the updates.

[FishyinKY]

Mike I was just wondering at the survival rate? Do you have any idea if its similar to just ocellaris?

[sharks]

This is amazing to see the growth and progress.
Way to go Mike! Talk about dedication to the hobby.
I can’t wait to see how they look as they mature.

[Wildcatt88]

Waiting for today's update!

[thecoralreef]

Ok, I think this picture is about the clearest so far. I placed my hand in the tank because the camera has auto focus and can't focus on the fry because they are so small as you can see in the picture. I added baby brine shrimp today and they are eating well. I still have lots of rotifers in the tank as well to keep them well fed. At first they just swam around and looked at the brine shrimp as if to say get out of my tank and then swim off. About half the fry have started to eat them.

Now for the parents. They still haven't laid the eggs from what I can tell, unless they laid them in behind that I can't see them as the male doesn't come out from behind the rock but a half dozen times a day. A lot less than he used to and maybe because he's tending to the eggs.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_7-med.jpg

[na1paj]

awesome! glad they're eating well.. are you enriching the bb? or are you hatching new ones everyday? it's probably better to hatch new ones daily

[thecoralreef]

Well I've gotten in to the habit of watching these little guys zip around the tank. It's hard as these little guys really move fast. You would never guess they were even clown fish by the way they move. There little tails are fanning at light speed and don't stop but for a moment to gaze at a baby brine shrimp and then off again. The fry don't stop for much at all. Every once in a while they will kink there tail to stalk a brine shrimp for 2 seconds and then lunge forward toward the shrimp for a tasty treat. They are learning that the shrimp are food and scurry around to find more once they've eatin one. After watching them for a bit I was focused enough to be able to watch one in particular zoom around the tank looking for food. Little did he know that about every other second a shrimp was bouncing off his head. Once he did see one directly in front of himself, he kinks his tail to stop and position himself for the attack, then lunge forward to only miss the intended prey. After watching one fry for about 10 minutes, I came to the conclusion that there aim is nothing to write home about. There little tails are very uncooperative when trying to catch a meal. I would say for every baby brine they succesfully capture and eat, they've missed approximately 25-30 others. In the ten minutes I watched him, he ate about 2 shrimp succesfully. Most of the fry have developed a dark color to them with the exception of a couple, and are about twice the size as they were when they hatched. I had a bit of an amonia rise this morning and after doing a water change all is normal. I've lost about 4 fry throughout the day today, a couple from shock. Not sure what the shock was from but from my research this what they had. The fry the expired would swim speedily through the water in circles not stopping until they just landed on the bottom of the tank. Hmmmmm, another chalk line for experience I guess. I hope that I come out of this first endevour with at least a couple fish that survive to adulthood, would be nice to see what they will look like. Anyway, I will post a new picture later tonight as I covered the tank up to minimize the stress (shock). I have yet to see a new clutch of eggs from the pair, but that doesn't mean anything. They might have just skipped a cycle after they host anemone decided to split into 3 and got them all screwed up. Hopfully there will be more eggs to share with everybody.

Mike

[thecoralreef]

Well the pictures seem to be getting better, it's either me or the fish are getting bigger and I am able to get a better shot. Probably the later of the 2. This is a picture of one of the ry about 15 minutes ago, 11:30 PM. You can see the dark color on the fry and his silver belly. I know, these pictures suck, there not very clear at all but it's the best my camera will do. One of these days I'll get a nice clear shot of one of them and then you can really see them. I'm blaming the camera.

Anyway, I'm getting excited that they could start to metamorphis any day. Some are showing sign that they will go into metamorphisis any time now and some are taking there time at it and are still pink with no dark color pigmentation to them at all, just a couple though. Anyway, hope you enjoy the pics and updates.

Mike

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Clown_fry_day_8-med.jpg

[FishyinKY]

Mike this is amazing, Great job, and the pictures are getting it done!

[Forestal]

Wonderful job Mike.

question for you. are you putting greenwater in the fry tank to help with ammonia levels? I am guessing no, since you have the tank covered without light. or just the bbs/rotifers. thanks.

with the seahorse fry, using greenwater seemed to help absorb/convert the ammonia. plus serves to keep the rotifers gut loaded for longer. didnt know if this helps/hinders clown fry.

keep up the good work.

[J_T]

good luck with metamorphis, after that it is all down hill, isn't it?

[Mary]

Great dedication you have and awesome job on sharing this with all of us!

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome, Mike!!!! :clap: :clap:
I'm thoroughly enjoying following this!!

[Jimbo]

forestal, i think youre right about that greenwater thing, when we added it to the larval tanks at my school the fry seemed to do better. somethin to consider tryin on one of the next batches mike. but awesome job so far!!

[ReefinBob]

I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread!!

It seems to me the mortality rate you've described is very low - is this low rate typical of clown breeding? Or, is it at metamorphosis that the mortality spikes?

I suppose I should RTFG (read the Google) but thought I'd ask

[J_T]

Metamorphosis is where they drop off if I have read right (I looked into this briefly when my Clarki started laying eggs, but since the fish eat them, I don't worry about it anymore)

[Jimbo]

basically, when they're young they're silver and just swim around with their mouths open, pushing forward with their tails. at this time they don't resemble clowns at all, then when metamorphosis happens they color up and start to swim like clowns. its at this time in the wild that they'd swim down from open water and hide.
its really cool to watch cuz it happens almost overnight. after that mortality drops a lot and its pretty much smooth sailing. should be happenin any day now like mike said. i cant wait for the newest pics!!

[J_T]

I don't know, but I have waited long enough. Where are the Pics Mike.

[thecoralreef]

Forestal, I do not add green water to the larval tank. I've read that some people do, but if you do water changes regularly you don't really need to worry about amonia.

[Wildcatt88]

UPDATE US MIKE!

[Mary]

Tap Tap Tap - waitingggggggggggg!

[FishyinKY]

Poor Mike you gotta feed the masses lol.

[thecoralreef]

OK, heres a picture of the fry at day 9. I think I am actually getting better at taking these pictures, maybe. They are really getting some nice dark color to them. I can't wait to see how these little guys will turn out. What kind of stripes they will have, ocellariswith the bulge in the middle strip or just straight strips like the maroon. If I had to guess I would say they will have the ocellaris strips with the maroon/ocellaris chocolate coloring, just strictly a guess though.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_9-med.jpg

[Mary]

They are looking cute and can see the growth very well!

[Jimbo]

Awesome!! i cant wait to see how they turn out. judgin from the pic they should be metamorphosin real soon. i'm guessin 2 days and they should get some little stripes on em!!!
nice job keepin us updated mike, like mac said you gotta feed the masses (fishy masses and us). between raisin rotifers, greenwater, artemia, and satisfying all of our urges to live vicariously thru you, you must be wiped out.
keep up the good work mike!!!!

[thecoralreef]

Well it is allot to do for one pair of clowns. I am looking for another pair of clowns to breed and raise fry from but it's hard to find. I think seeins I have everything going and have plenty, another pair of clowns and clutch of eggs wouldn't be twice as much work, just a bit more. Who am I kinding hey, it is allot of work but seeing these little guys growing and waiting to see how they turn out is well worth the effort. It also doesn't hurt knowing that this hybred hasn't been done before that I know of. I've searched the internet and asked but noone has done this mix of clowns before. Anyway, I tried to take some pictures but the one I took yesterday is better than anything I took today so it wouldn't do much to post.

I previously posted that the clowns didn't lay eggs as I thought they would, and then wondered if they did lay them but in behind all the rock that I couldn't see them. Well I now know that they did not lay the eggs in behind. The pair has laid a new clutch of eggs this afternoon. That's not even the good part. They did as I hoped and laid there clutch of eggs on the piece of tile I put in the tank for them, WOO HOO. That will make my life ten times easier when the time comes for them to hatch. That's a ton of fish I will have from them. I think this clutch looks bigger than the last clutch and if there was just over 500 in the last one theres allot more in this one. Here's a picture of the new eggs with Mom and Dad both by the eggs. I thought this was a nice picture because it has everthing in the shot, Mom, Dad, eggs, tile, anemone.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Clown_eggs_day_1a-med.jpg

[FishyinKY]

Amazing and congrats again Mike. Great pic.

[MINIATUS]

How they doin Mike, that was a nice size clutch for sure.
I seen them first, nanana. lol

MINIATUS:clap:

[thecoralreef]

That's true Min, I'll give you that. We had just gotten home from the Michigan Reefers frag swap and Min was drooling on the tank glass when he noticed that the clowns had laid the eggs on the tile. How cool is that, that's exciting for me, no fishing the eggs out of the main tank at 2 in the morning.

[MINIATUS]

Dont forget to wipe the glass down as I was drooling pretty heavy.

MINIATUS;)

[Wildcatt88]

Are you planing on taking the tile out now, or when?

[thecoralreef]

I am going to leave the tile in until the night of hatching. The parents do an awsome job on keeping the eggs airated and cleaned, probably do a better job than I would. The night of hatching I'll take the eggs out and put them into a larval tank and cover it up so it's dark.

[Wildcatt88]

Ok, that's what I thought.

[na1paj]

Originally posted by thecoralreef
I am going to leave the tile in until the night of hatching. The parents do an awsome job on keeping the eggs airated and cleaned, probably do a better job than I would. The night of hatching I'll take the eggs out and put them into a larval tank and cover it up so it's dark.

one of the batches our clowns laid, we didn't want to keep it. someone local said that they wanted to try so we took the eggs out prematurely and try to hatch some for him. we set the bubbler on them and some did hatch early, and some of the rest kinda just died. So we gave away the newly hatched ones to the guy and set the eggs back into the tank (some dead but still attached) and both the parents started plucking/eating away the dead ones (you can hear the sound to) and after a while there were still some left on the clay pot. it was pretty interesting to watch them do that.
sorry about this gross description, but my point is that the eggs would die w/o the parents...

[Jimbo]

i agree with michelle, mike. we had similar results at my school. Initially we transfered the clay pots with eggs on em the night before we thought they'd hatch, but found we got such low hatch rates that we eventually started leavin the eggs to hatch with the parents and siphoning out the fry.
the low hatch rate might be worth the tradeoff of not havin to siphon the fry out of a big tank, tho.

[thecoralreef]

Hi Jim. At this point I have no intention or desire to take the eggs out of the display tank until just before lights out on the day they are to hatch. I couldn't even compare to the care that they give the eggs in the tank. They are at the eggs all day every day protecting and keeping them clean.

I took this pic from above the tank this time as the pics I took from the side are the same as before. I noticed tonight that a few of the fry are getting some strips on the head and mid body. This is getting more exciting every day. The next week should be really exciting as there color should become even more like there parents. Well today we had zero mortality and they are eating like pigs. All there belly's are bulging from eating baby brine shrimp.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_11-med.jpg

[Wildcatt88]

This may be a stupid question, but some animals/fish will gorge themselves until they explode. Is this at all a possibility?

Very cool Mike. Can't wait to see them when they have some color!

[thecoralreef]

The clown fish fry will do this at certain stages. Ususally when they are young and eat everything they can not knowing when they will get food again. Until they learn that they will get fed everyday at the same time they will eat literally until there bellies explode. Feeding baby brine shrimp is different from feeding rotifers. Rotifers you add to larval tank water so that there is enough rotifers that they only need to move 1-2 body lengths to eat a rotifer, baby brine you add enough to the tank so that there is 15-25 per clown fish fry. The baby brine I usually add 2 times per day to keep it stocked. I usually add some first thing in the morning and then about 4 hours before lights out so they have a full belly before bed time. They can pretty much consume most of the baby brine in the tank by the afternoon and then will still feed on some rotifers which I still add daily. Today will be a first time for adding dry spirulina enriched flake food ground up really small. Should be interesting to see if any will eat the flake food or just watch it. It may take a couple day before they realize that the flakes are food and start eating it. Once one brave soul eats and realizes it the rest should follow.

[FishyinKY]

Fantastic Mike, let us know how it goes.

[na1paj]

It would be cool if you could convert them to eat flake...
we tried that on our benggais, took some starving for them to even only eat frozen brine... we used a small syringe and they got used to knowing that syringe = food, and they learn to eat frozen that way.

[thecoralreef]

Hi everyybody. Sorry I didn't get on last night to post an update. Things were a bit crazy here last night. Well, we haven't had any baby clowns die in the last 3-4 days which is good. From what I can tell there is about 60-70 clowns in the tank. Most of the fry have 2 strips, one behind the head and one midbody. There is a couple fry that don't have any stripes yet and are about half the size of the others, slow growers I guess. I tried them with finely crushed flake food first thing this morning and a few started to eat the flakes. The problem with flake fod is it sinks to the bottom of te tank once it get saturated. Anyone who has clown fish knows that once the fod hits the floor they don't want it. It then sits there and decays and creates ammonia. This means more vaccuuming of the tank to sop this from happening. This helps to teach them to eat prepared food though. I took pictures again tonight but they still didn't come out nice. I'll try first thing in the morning and see if I can get a better pic.

The eggs in the broodstock tank aregetting darker and you can start to see dark ends to the eggs. An anemone has moved up from under the rock and onto the tile right bside the eggs. Doesn't seem to be bothering the eggs at all.

[ystmaroon]

Sounds like all is well. Good to hear.

[Shark Bait]

CR have you checked in to shipping them here to the states. I know your busy tending to them but I'm sure a bunch of us would love to have some of your "babies".
Thanks for all the updates this has been quite the learning experience.

[thecoralreef]

I finally got a picture of one of the clowns with the stripes. It's not a clear shot but you can see the color coming in. You can also see the orange brown coing in as well. There are no deaths over night to today so far. They are really munching down on rotifers and baby brine. Getting real fat and colorful. Well here is the pic:

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_14-med.jpg

[na1paj]

STRIPES!! *clap clap*!!
what's a clown w/o a stripe! :D

[Naty]

Awesome Mike!! :)

[ReefinBob]

It's a bit hard to tell from the picture - do they favor "papa" or "mama"?

[J_T]

Finally, they have earned their stripes. Good job Mike.

[thecoralreef]

It will probably take a good month or so to find out for sure. My best guess is that the offspring color will be a mix between the orange of the ocellaris and the burgandy of the maroon. As for strips, I would guess that the stripes will likely be closer to the ocellaris than the maroon only because the female is ocellaris. They will likely have the middle strip with the loop instead of a straight strip like the maroon.

[Sea of Sorrow]

Awesome Mike!!! :clap:
About how many baby clowns do you have at this point (guestimate)?

[thecoralreef]

I have guestimating of course, about 60 babies.

[Sea of Sorrow]

Nice!! That's great, Mike...especially for your first time working with them!

[Mary]

Great looking pic of the change that has taken and you should be very proud!

[Wildcatt88]

Very cool! Nice lookin color and stripes! That's awesome!

[Haole]

Excellent job Mike!
You should be proud of your achievements, especially for a first time go at this!
Thanks for taking the time to share all of what you have done with us.
I’ve been following this from the start, and have been looking forward to seeing your latest updates. It’s been fun and interesting as well to see how these little guys have been growing and changing.
Of course this is all at your expense, so thanks again for sharing this!
Good luck!

[thecoralreef]

Well my picture taking hasn't improved much since I started this. I took lots of pictures but this is the best I got that shows the stripes. Just one picture, a nice clear shot that's all I ask of my cheap camera. Anyways, here's the pis. Oh, I should mention that I haven't lost any fry in the last 5-6 days or so.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_15-med.jpg

[Mary]

WOW! Big difference in them in just the past few days. Glad to see that you haven't lost any in the past few days and hope your successful venture continues as it has been. Great job!

[FishyinKY]

Interesting color too. I can't wait to see them as they progress!

[J_T]

AAHHH, she's so cute.

[J_T]

how big are they now?

[thecoralreef]

They are about a 1/4 inch maybe a touch bigger.

[J_T]

How big do they have to be before you will start selling them?

[Jimbo]

mike, what's youre maintenance schedule on these guys? how often do you do water changes? etc. we did small (1/2 gal.) water changes daily when we siphoned the bottom of the tanks and fed em like crazy. with water changes and lots of food these guys grow QUICK. some of em got to almost an inch in a little over a month, looks like yours are right on track. GOOD JOB MIKE!!!!

[Wildcatt88]

Very cool! Been a wonderful thread!

Can't wait to see them in all their orange/black/maroon/white striped glory!

Mike, your mortality rate has been awesome! Even for someone with expirence I am not sure you could do much better...

[thecoralreef]

I do a 2 liter water change a day, 1 liter of freshly mixed salt water, and 1 liter from the broodstock tank. I do this once a day usually at night. I change the green water at the same time and add that to the rotifers. I picked up a breeding pair of saddle back clowns the other day along with thier carpet anemone. Hopefully they will start breeding as well. Figured I was in this far and they were a good deal as the guy wanted ride of them to upgrade to larger tank. I just got sucker tatooed on my forhead.

[FishyinKY]

Congratulations on the new pair as well Mike!

[Wildcatt88]

Great Mike, a new breed to work on. Maybe you'll become the marine fish breeder of Canada...

[na1paj]

wow... 3 pairs so far???? I really really really really really wanna get a gold stripe maroon pair...

[thecoralreef]

4 pairs actually. I have the ocellaris and maroon pair, an ocellaris pair, a pink skunk pair, and now the saddle back pair. So far the only ones laying eggs are the ocellaris and maroon pair. The saddle backs I just bought are laying eggs but I've only had them 3 days so it may take a couple months for them to get back into the groove.

The babies are doing well and growing fast. Acouple have got to be close to a half in almost. They might be the few I got out the first night. Anyhow, tonight I will be taking the new clutch of eggs out of the tank and putting them into the larval tank for them to hatch in the larval tank, so much easier. Most of the eggs have silvered over and looks like they will hatch tonight. I'll try and get a picture later but the computer is acting up again. I've got lots to do to get the new juvenile system ready for these babies. I'll try and get it on tonight but no promises.
Mike

[thecoralreef]

Oh, I forgot. I seen about 12 - 15 pairs of goldstrip maroons at Tropicorium a couple weeks ago. A couple of the piars the female was a monster. A couple of the females had to be 5-6 inches and the male only 2-3 inches. Big clowns they were. They were selling the pairs for I believe $99/pair. The only thing is you have no idea how old they are and if they will even lay eggs. I guess they would be great for someone who just wants a pair for there tank, nice fish though.

[thecoralreef]

I had to get online this morning and share with everybody. Like I said yesterday, I was going to take the tile with the eggs on it out of the main display tank yesterday. What a chore. The male maroon fish did not like me mucking around near his eggs. He repeatedly attacked my hand inforcing a full out strike on the intruder. Well I got the eggs out and replaced the tile with another tile to keep him somewhat happy. I put the eggs into a 5.5 gallon tank this time as I thought there would be more larvae and a 2.5 gallon was enough for just the little I got out the first time. Well this morning when I checked the eggs, about half the eggs hatched and half did not. I'm keeping the ggs in the larval tank and airated and the rest should hatch tonight when lights out. Just wanted to share with everbody that's been following.

Oh, and this was alot easier than trying to fish them out of the display tank, let me tell you.

[Shark Bait]

I admire your dedication and hard work. I bought the same "clownfish" book thinking that I would try to breed my clowns. Man ! that's alot of work!
This has got to be the most watched thread on the board.

[Mary]

I agree with you SB, on this being the most watched thread on this forum. Looking forward to more pics when you have the time, Mike.

[thecoralreef]

Well I think everyone will like this picture. I finally got a nice shot with the colors and stripes. From what I can tell so far, they resemble the maroon clown. There does seem to be a bend in the middle stripe that may turn out to be the ocellaris striping. I haven't had any losses in about the last week so things are going good.

The new clutch of eggs, half hatched last night and I'm assuming the other half will hatch tonight. From guessing there is about 200 new babies in the tank, and that is probably less than half the eggs.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194Fry_day_17-med.jpg

[FishyinKY]

Fantastic Mike and Congratulations once again.

[Naty]

Mike, they really are adorable!

Good job!!!!!

[Wildcatt88]

Really nice shot!

[na1paj]

strangly, they look more like the dad! bet the mom is sad none of her babies look like her...

[MountainM]

Mike,
Those look awesome bud, love to have some in the store :)

[MINIATUS]

MountianM


Welcome to the Frag Exchange. I got to get over to the store and see what else you have. That Frogspawn I got is doing great.

MINIATUS:)

[MountainM]

I thought I'd registar finally, I've been a few times since you listed off all those sites last time you were into the shop. Glad to hear the frogspawn is doin awesome!
Oh and thanks for the welcome, seems like an alllright place to hang out :)

[thecoralreef]

Well everything seems to be going well. Sorrry I haven't posted in here the last copuple days, my computer has been acting up and I'm in the process of formatting and reloading everything back on, and this can take some time putting all the programs back in place. The fish are doing well and a few of the clowns actually have all 3 stripes already. If I get the rest of my programs on today I'll take a picture and post it.

I've learned a lesson about my greenwater for those interested. I have 7 2 liter pop bottle for my greenwater setup. I've had one bottle that hasn't been doing that great the last week. It started to foam at the top like a skimmer but also was getting lighter instead of getting darker. Well this morning I woke up top find that bottle was almost clear. I took a sample of water and put it under the microscope and found rotifers. I must have contaminated that bottle with a pippet that I used in the rotifer tank. Anyways, lesson learned, it's pretty easy to do.

[thecoralreef]

Hey everyone, just thought I would share this. As I sit here right now I can see my main display tank where my Ocellaris and Maroon pair are. The tank is about 15 feet away. I'm watching them lay another clutch of eggs from where I sit and type, so cool. The female kinks her tail and flutters with her side fins in a slow cirsle all the while keeping her belly against the tile. As she circles she she lays eggs and the male follows after she's made a pass. Once in while he makes a pass at the same time just opposite of the circling she is doing. This is so neat to watch. I walked over to the tank a bit closer and it didn't seem to bother them, they kept right on going doing there business. The female has a white tube thay hangs down out just before her anal fin. She holds this tube against the rock as she makes a pass and lays a strip of eggs against the tile. The male is always in pursuit to fertilize the eggs. They seem pretty content in there beside the tile and there anemone's. The tangs glide by the tile, stop and look to see what's going on, and then glide on. The 2 clowns don't even bat a fin at the sight of them and keep going as if no-one was there.

[Haole]

That is so cool!
How lucky you are to be able to witness this Mike!
Especially with all the other things that you need to tend to.
Congrad’s....

[Wildcatt88]

Wow, bet that's cool to watch!

Didn't they lay a clutch like a week ago? Is this a third for ya???

Is that liter full of rotifers now???

[thecoralreef]

This is the 5th clutch of eggs from this pair so far. This is the third clutch that I will try to rear. I wasn't readt for the first 2 clutchs as my greenwater and rotifers hadn't matured yet. Yes, the 2 liter pop bottle was chalked full of rotifers, it was thick with them. I just took the bottle out of the holder and dumped it into the rotifer tank. I then tossed the bottle out. If just one rotifer makes it through a wash and rinse of the bottle, even a resting rotifer or eggs, the bottle will produce for a week or so until they start to mutliply again. With that much greenwater for rotifers to eat, they will double in a day.

[Naty]

Ummmmm, Mike..... ?

How's it going there?

[ReefinBob]

If possible Mike I'd like to see a pic of the first clutch you were successful with raising.

I assume you've found a home (read that sold) most of that clutch -right? Are you keeping a few around to see if they are non-viable sports or if they can reproduce? If so, are you going to see if they "favor" Maroon Clowns or Ocellaris Clowns as mating partners?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Bob

[thecoralreef]

Sorry everybody about not getting any updates on the juveniles. My computer is being upgraded by my brother and I should have it back in the next day or so. I'll post some nice pictures of the first clutch as they are about 1 month old, very cute. And I also have been busy and built a new grow out system for the juveniles that I will post some pictures as well.
Mike

[thecoralreef]

Sorry everybody. I finally got my computer back and running. There's still a few kinks to work out but I think I will be able to get all my programs loaded on today and possibly get some pics loaded up tonight sometime, probably late. I haven't lost any fish since they reached metamorphisis, they seem to do well once they hit that stage. Eat alot of food, and man do they love food. I've been feeding crushed flake food in the morning and baby brine shrimp in the late afternoon. I had a new clutch of eggs hatch Thursday night past and had a good hatch rate. I didn't get them out of the tank as I didn't think they would hatch. Anyway I have about 250 fry in the tank.

[Sea of Sorrow]

AWESOME news, Mike!! :clap: :clap:
Can't wait to see the new pics!!

[Dman]

thecoralreef,
I've been following along for quite some time and thought I would finally chime in.

Your mortality rates are awesome, you are definately doing something right, big thumbs up.

The last picture you posted of the oldest fry are definately shaping up to look like Maroons as my GSM's look very similar in body shape.

And a definate huge thumbs up for having the time and patience to put this thread together, well done.

Dman
aka
Dman

[FishyinKY]

bump bump bump ohhhh mikey where the heck are you?

[Mary]

Looking forward to an up-date and pics!

[Shark Bait]

Looking forward to seeing some of these in the For Sale thread

[thecoralreef]

Well, I finally got the computer to cooperate with me, a bit. This picture is of the first clutch of fry when I started this thread. This is about the closest I could get of the color in a picture. Most of the pictures come out red, almost burgandy like the maroon. They aren't as dark as the maroon, and a bit darker than the ocellaris, somewhere in between. I will try to get some better pictures later. I have a new clutch of fry that are about a wek old right now, wow a week old already, time fly's when your having fun. Also have a new clutch of eggs in the tank that were laid on Wednesday. The clutches of eggs they are laying are getting bigger I think. Of the fry that are about a week old there are about 250 fry, guessing. I'll post some pics of my new grow out system that I built. It should hold about 400 fish all together. Anyway, I try to get some more up later tonight or tomorrow at the latest now that I have my computer and camera software cooperating.

Mike
http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194000_0956-med.JPG

[thecoralreef]

Oh, forgot to mention how big they are getting. Most of the juveniles are about 1/2 inch to 5/8's of an inch. There are about 5 of the clowns that are excelling in growth and are about 3/4 to almost an inch long. They seem to be growing fast, I feed them twice a day so that might be why.

Mike

[jtremblay]

Looking amazing!

I can't wait until they're big enough for me to pick up a couple :D

Jason

[thecoralreef]

Well better late than never. I've been so busy lately it hard to find time to get some pics in but thought I'd better just take the time and do it. This is a picture of the growout system for my juvenile clown fish. On the top level there is 4 15 gallon tall tanks all drilled in the back corner of the tank. I have all the tank plumbed together underneath and all into a 35 gallon sump on the bottom level. In the sump there is a pail of bio-balls and floss for filtration. I left the seconfd level empty for now but may end up putting more tanks in-line there as well. I have a 5.5 gallon tank on there now with the second clutch of juveniles and just an airline for oxygen. I will put them in the system in a couple weeks. When they are about a month old I will more them in the system. The third clutch of babies is about 12 days old and some are showing signs of reaching metamorphisis, a couple are getting a stripe behind the head.

http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194000_0967-med.JPG

[MINIATUS]

Just another excuse for me to mossey on over. LOL

MINIATUS:clap:

[Sea of Sorrow]

Mike, that is totally cool!! :clap:

[jtremblay]

Any updates?

Jason

[Mary]

Yes, would like the latest info on the little cuties. :)

[FishyinKY]

Hey Mike are we all getting fish for christmas?

[jtremblay]

Originally posted by FishyinKY
Hey Mike are we all getting fish for christmas?

Hey, at least Iwas trying to be subtle :D

My pre-schooler's constantly bugging me about getting the fish for our new tank, however :)

[FishyinKY]

I'm not known for my subtlety ha ha ha

[MINIATUS]

Yakking to Mike the other day, says hes so busy hasnt had much time to get on line. I going over on the weekend so Ill check it out even if I have to take pics of them. HINT just an excuse to try out the camera.

MINIATUS:clap:

[thecoralreef]

Sorry about the long wait, but I've been so busy lately. Here is a picture of the first clutch of eggs I did from this pair. He is only about 3/4 of an inch. He's about average for the clutch. A few are about an inch and there is a couple that are only about 1/2 an inch. Anyway, I'll try to keep everyone a little more updated than what I have been.
Mike
http://fragexchange.com/photopost/data/546/1194000_0995-med.JPG

[jtremblay]

Wow!

Those clowns look awesome!

I still have a tank waiting for a pair :D

Jason

[sharks]

WOW they look great. They have grown since last I seen this thread.
How many do you have now?

[thecoralreef]

All together I have about 400 in total. I have another batch that will hatch tonight though, so add on another 100-200.The best success I've had so far with the fry is when I do daily water changes. I use water from the broodstock tank to do the water changes in the larval tank. This is good because is serves 2 purposes, water changes in the larval tank and water change in the broodstock tank.

[Sea of Sorrow]

Mike, that is just way cool!!
I'd love to get a pair of those from ya sometime!

[jtremblay]

It's been a few weeks since the last post so it's time to ask ... how're the babies coming along?

Any idea when you'll be able to start selling them?

Thanks!

Jason

[thecoralreef]

They are about an inch long and looking awsome. They should be ready sometime in February, possibly march, depending on how fast they grow inbetween now and then.

[Thomas Jones]

Man that is awsome. I have a 30 galllon set up can I bred clowns in it. Where can I get the food for the fry? Congrats man. I thought hatching baby snakes was time consuming but you have me beat.

[Roger9034]

Hey I Had A Question For You, I Have Gold Stripe Maroon Clowns, What Is Said To Be A Pair But I Dont Know For Sure. Anyways I Have One Of Them Staying In One Corner Of The Tank And Not Moving At Anytime Away From This Corner. I Noticed There Are Some Little Bright Red Circles Up Against Some Rock. I Dont Know If These Are Eggs Or What. Im Not Sure If The Clown Is Hovering Over Eggs To Protect Or What?? Can You Help

[Roger9034]

Update, The Clown I Was Talking About Died Yesterday But The Other Clown Is Now Guarding The Eggs. Anyways I Guess This Is What They Are

[Mary]

Sorry for your loss Roger! I know Thecoralreef is gone for about another week or so before he may be able to reply here.
It does sound like they have eggs that they were protecting.

[jtremblay]

Soooo ...

Are the clowns ready for sale?

I still have that tank up 'n' waiting for a couple :D

Jason

[thecoralreef]

I haven't sold any in North America as of yet. There are some that are about 1" to 1 1/4" long so they are getting close. They are starting to get black around the fins and tail which is starting to look nice. I also had another batch last night which looks promising, not very many dead ones this morning. My biggest problem is keeping on top of things. I've been so busy lately it's crazy. I'll post some pics once the gallery is up and running again, if I lower the quality of the picture to fit the upload the picture is too grainy and doesn't come out nice.

[Roger9034]

Can You Tell Me Catus Coral How You Are Raising These Clowns. I Am Just Now Getting Into The Breeding Stage And Am Lost. Several Websites Dont Offer The Info I Need. Once You Spot The Larvaes, What Kind Of Tank Are You Moving Them To. What Is Your Setup. How Are You Growing The Food To Feed The Larvae Stage?

[thecoralreef]

Well to make a long story even longer.........hehe. I personally use a 2.5 gallon tank for my larvae. Some sites say 10 gallon, some even bigger but I've found that the larger you go the more rotifers you need. I find it easier to clean and do water changes on a smaller tank as well. I only have about 1.5 to 2 gallons of water in the tank as well. As for my setup, I have 4 15 gallon tall tank all plumbed into one sump with bio-balls and a good skimmer. As for food, hmmmmmm, well that is going to be a chore in itself. Greenwater I put in 7 - 2 liter pop bottles, one for each day of the week. If you know anyone with green water get a bit from them and start from there, if not DT's will work or some other greenwater source in your area. You can put enough greenwater in with fresh saltwater mixed at a SG of 1.017 to tinge the water slightly green. Then add 1.5 ml of Guillards formula F fertilizer. The fertilizer is food for the greenwater, without it the greenwater has nothing to feed on and will not reproduce. Once you have 7 bottle growing on a cycle you can then get some rotifers off a friend or buy them from the LFS. Feed about 3/4 of 1 bottle of greenwater to your rotifers once a day. They will reproduce and you will have plenty. I feed greenwater to the rotifers at night and feed rotifers to larvae in the morning. There is lots more you will find out that you need to do but each situation requires tweaking and is different a bit. Daily water changes are a nessesity, do not defer this task or they will die. A good book to read would be Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson.

[thecoralreef]

I hope I didn't scare you but if your going to get into breeding there is alot of work involved contrary to what people say. If you go away for just one day you need someone that knows what there doing. It's a daily event, twice a day. Feed in the morning, and then vaccuum the tank and feed in the evening. On top of that you have to always switch your greenwater, clean your rotifers, constantly making live baby brine shrimp every other day.

BUT, and I say BUT, the outcome of doing something like this is extraordinary. Watching the 12 day old minute fishes transform basically overnight into miniature clownfishes with stripes is a thing you won't forget. One day they are small little torpedoes zipping around the tank at lightning speed and the next they are waddling through the water like clownfishes do. And to watch them grow into their stripes and color is a fascinating thing to watch from day to day. If you do it you won't regrete it. It does take alot of work that most people do not have the time or want to put that much time into. Keep us posted on what you are doing if you do try to raise them.
Mike

[thecoralreef]

Well some of you may know my clowns stopped laying eggs about the time of IMAC this year. They decided to take the summer off of laying eggs I guess. About 1.5 months ago they got back into their regular routine and starting laying eggs again. I wasn't ready for them as I closed my greenwater and rotifer culture station down because I didn't need it going with no fry. Anyway, my culture station is back up and running and I will be getting my first batch probably Monday or Tuesday. Anyway, just thought I would bring everyone back up on my breeding factory :kisses: .

Mike

[ranger]

Do you have any pics of your setup as I am debating starting up a breeder if my 2 will pair up. Is the work worth the reward?

[thecoralreef]

I use 2 litter pop bottle with a small hole cut in the bottom turned upside down. I drilled holes in a 2x4 just big enough to set the cap end of the bottle in and be able to stand up. I use 7 bottles spaced evenly over the length of a 3 foot flourescent bulb. Each bottle has an airline and ridgid tube in each bottle. I tried doing 7 bottle green water on one side and 7 bottles of rotifers on the other side but my green water kept getting rotifers in them. I use one bottle of greenwater per day in my rotifers leaving about 1/2 a cup in the bottle to restart the bottle for seven days filling it with new saltwater at about 1.017 SG. I use about the same amount of fluid in the rotifer tank to ensure I don't get too many rotifers that the greenwater I add isn't enough to last them the day. The rotifers I have in a 5 gallon tank with 2 airlines and ridgid tubing again keeping the tank about 5/8 full at all times. The rotifers have a heater in the tank to keep the temp steady at 78`. Rotifers grow faster the warmer the water is. There should be pics in the beginning of this thread of my greenwater setup or in my photo gallery. If not let me know and I will try to get a new pic and post it.

Mike

[thecoralreef]

Hi, my name is Kim. Lately I have been entertaining the idea of a little small time breeding for some fun and during my research I found your forum discussion of when you were breeding your maroon with your ocellaris i think back in 2004. I just wanted to touch base with you and ask you a bunch of questions about the process. And things like... I've seen frozen rotifers, can i feed those to the fry instead of harvesting my own? I have limited space and income and just looking for a little side hobby. My tanks have gotten to the point where all i do is change water and clean them, and just watch... i want some more action! Please let me know I am very interested in your experiences and the information you might have for me. You can also email me at Skrkar@aol.com. Thanks I appreciate it greatly!!

Very Respectfully,

Kimberly

Hi Kimberly I just copied and pasted in here as sending PM's I was limited to how many large of a response I could send to you. If you have any questions please feel free to ask in here and I will answer what I can for you and help out as much as I can.

Nice to see you hear first. Deciding to rear clownfish is an exciting and rewarding venture for any hobbyist. You have the opportunity to wtch your clowns all the way from their courtship to laying eggs to the growout of the fry into tiny Nemo's. I'm sure you will find this a huge learning process. First off I would say to buy a book by Joyce D. Wilkerson called Clownfish if you haven't already. Not expensive at all, around $30.00 and worth every penny and more. You will find most of everything you will need in this book along with her own experiences. I am not a huge book reader but this book is an easy read and layed out so you can read only the pertinent sections. You mentioned frozen rotifers. I personally haven't tried them but don't think they would work. Clownfish fry need to learn to eat, and in that they need to learn to hunt for there food. They do this at an early stage of 1-2 days starting to hunt. They scuddle throught the water and when they see a moving rotifer they stop, kink their tale watching the food, and then lunge forward snatching the rotifer up. This is done continually all day at this young stage and this is why I don't see frozen working. Not that the frozen food isn't nutritious, but that once introduced it will just slowly sink to the bottom of the tank. The fry will not eat off the bottom of the tank, only from within the water column, the reason for live food. The fry I have raised will need rotifers for approximatly 7-10 after being born and then I will start them on Live baby brine shrimp I hatch myself. There are a couple companies that you can buy live rotifers from. If you buy a condensed package you can use this for the 7-10 days and not have to grow them yourself. Any other questions I would more than happy to answer them. If you want you are more than welcome to ask them in the thread you found and I will answer in there.

Mike

[Skrkar]

Yes! I'm beginning to lose confidence as I am somewhat of an amateur still. I havn't a clue about rotifers... how to harvest them and raise them and proper care, how long they live, how much of it to feed the fry... I know nothing! I was reading about your elaborate set up of 2 liter soda bottles and I'm afraid that I probably don't have the knowledge or resources to set something like that up. I have only 2 tanks currently, a 90 gallon and a 46 gallon, they are both fish/reef tanks. I understand that I would need another one or two at least for the fry and of course another for the mom and dad. For the fry tanks do I need a full set up as I have in my other tanks with expensive filters and sand and everything? Or just a tank and heater with a bubble source and eventually a flourescent light source will do until I sell them? Of course with daily water changes! It seems like a lot of effort to set up, I am a busy girl, but I'm determined to do it!! I will go on a treasure hunt for that book today but if I can't find it I will just order it offline. I fear that I will be over my head with all of this, knowing nothing about rotifers. Brine shrimp I understand are fairly easy to hatch and feed especially if you get one of those hatchery systems they sell out there. I would consider just purchasing live rotifers from some company online but I figure by the time I order it once a week and all the money in shipping it might just have been worth it to set up my own contraption. What is your opinion? Then again, perhaps it might be worth the cost for the convenience and not having to mess with greenwater or the setup, especially since as i said before I will probably not be able to raise one clutch after another especially if they lay eggs once a month or more! I also have no breeding clowns yet, nor a separate tank for them, but I plan to set up the new tank this weekend and purchase a pair of already mated clowns. Let me know what you think about all of this. And if harvesting the rotifers is as hard as it sounds for an amateur such as myself...? Maybe with your help and the book I can get a little something going! Like you said, it's just one big learning experience! Thanks so much, look forward to hearing from you soon!!

Kimberly

[thecoralreef]

Hi Kim, good to see determination like you have. You will need it in this venture as it does require a tight regimented schedule. This doesn't have to be an expensive venture. You can budget yourself and do this fairly cheaply. You should see what kind of market you will have for the fry and plan accordingly, no sence in raising 400 fry if you will only be able to sell 50. For your first try I would plan on trying only a small amount of fry. This will keep your rotifer food supply a little longer.

As for the fry